Legislature(2003 - 2004)

02/19/2003 01:10 PM Senate RES

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
                         JOINT MEETING                                                                                        
              SENATE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                             
               HOUSE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                             
                       February 19, 2003                                                                                        
                           1:10 p.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
SENATE RESOURCES                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
 Senator Scott Ogan, Chair                                                                                                      
 Senator Ralph Seekins                                                                                                          
 Senator Ben Stevens                                                                                                            
 Senator Georgianna Lincoln                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE RESOURCES                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
 Representative Mike Chenault, Co-Chair                                                                                         
 Representative Hugh Fate, Co-Chair                                                                                             
 Representative Bob Lynn                                                                                                        
 Representative Kelly Wolf                                                                                                      
 Representative David Guttenberg                                                                                                
 Representative Beth Kerttula                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SENATE RESOURCES                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
 Senator Thomas Wagoner, Vice Chair                                                                                             
 Senator Fred Dyson                                                                                                             
 Senator Kim Elton                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE RESOURCES                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
 Representative Beverly Masek, Vice Chair                                                                                       
 Representative Carl Gatto                                                                                                      
 Representative Cheryll Heinze                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MINING INDUSTRY OVERVIEW                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
TAPES - 03-5, 03-6, SIDE(S) A & B [SENATE RES TAPE]                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SUMMARY OF INFORMATION                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                              
CO-CHAIR  SCOTT OGAN  convened the  joint meeting  of the  Senate                                                             
Resources  Standing Committee  and the  House Resources  Standing                                                               
Committee  at  1:10  p.m.  Present  at the  call  to  order  were                                                               
Senators Lincoln, Stevens and  Co-Chair Ogan, and Representatives                                                               
Guttenberg, Wolf,  Lynn, Morgan and Co-Chairs  Chenault and Fate.                                                               
Senators  Olson  and  Hoffman  joined  the  committee  while  the                                                               
meeting was in progress.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR.  STEVE  BORELL,  Executive  Director  of  the  Alaska  Miners                                                               
Association,   applauded   the   Governor's  focus   on   mineral                                                               
development and  the construction  of new  roads. He  stated that                                                               
streamlining the  oil and  gas permit  process will  also benefit                                                               
the mining industry.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. BORELL  reviewed changes  made on  the national  level during                                                               
the last year.  The U.S. Department of Interior  will institute a                                                               
new procedure regarding recordable  disclaimers of interest. This                                                               
change will result  in a significant cost reduction  to the state                                                               
by avoiding adjudication in federal court.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. BORELL  said the big  issue for  the mining industry  at this                                                               
time is the price  of metals. The price of zinc  is very low; the                                                               
price of  gold is  volatile. Small  operators are  struggling but                                                               
junior exploration  companies are  showing increased  interest in                                                               
Alaska. The Fraser  Institute Report has shown  that Alaska falls                                                               
in the middle of the  pack regarding the industry's perception of                                                               
Alaska's friendliness toward mining.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MS.  CHARLOTTE  MacCAY,  Senior  Administrator  of  Environmental                                                               
Affairs for  Tech-Cominco, gave a PowerPoint  presentation on the                                                               
operations of the  Red Dog Mine. She pointed out  that zinc is at                                                               
its lowest  price since  the Great  Depression and,  although the                                                               
Red Dog Mine is losing money,  it will weather the low price. She                                                               
stressed the  economic benefits  of the mine  to the  NANA Region                                                               
and   NANA   shareholders,   and   its   state-of-the-art,   high                                                               
environmental  standards.  The  Red   Dog  Mine  is  leading  the                                                               
industry  in  "fugitive dust  control"  and  fish are  populating                                                               
local streams for  the first time as the water  quality is better                                                               
now  than it  was  prior  to the  development  of  the mine.  She                                                               
reviewed the  mine's efforts to  convert power generation  at the                                                               
mine  from diesel  fuel to  natural gas  using a  privately owned                                                               
source of  natural gas located on  NANA land. She noted  that the                                                               
existing  gas  regulations were  not  written  for this  type  of                                                               
project and may need to be expanded.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  FATE  announced  that Senator  Olson  was  present  and                                                               
called Rich Heig to present to the committee.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. RICH HEIG,  general manager of the Greens Creek  Mine, gave a                                                               
PowerPoint  presentation  on  the  status of  operations  at  the                                                               
Greens  Creek Mine  on Admiralty  Island in  Southeast Alaska  [a                                                               
copy of  the PowerPoint  presentation and  a handout  he provided                                                               
are in the  Senate Resources Committee file].  Mr. Heig described                                                               
the location,  history and operations  of the Greens  Creek Mine.                                                               
Since 1995, the  mine has increased production of  three types of                                                               
concentrates from  1350 tons per day  to 2000 tons per  day while                                                               
reducing  costs every  year to  remain competitive.  Greens Creek                                                               
prefers to  hire locally; about  85 percent of its  260 employees                                                               
are Alaska residents. Greens Creek  is the largest private sector                                                               
employer in the  Juneau area. The mine footprint is  very small -                                                               
327   acres,  and   it  spends   $2  million   annually  on   its                                                               
environmental budget.  The future life  of the Greens  Creek Mine                                                               
is 10 years. It has an aggressive exploration plan this year.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. HEIG described the conclusions  of a McDowell Group survey of                                                               
200 Juneau households:  78 percent felt mining  is very important                                                               
to  the Juneau  economy; 77  percent felt  mining has  a positive                                                               
impact. In  addition, 61  percent felt Greens  Creek does  a good                                                               
job environmentally, 7 percent felt  the opposite, and 32 percent                                                               
did  not know.  He then  discussed the  economic benefits  of the                                                               
mine to Juneau.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR.  RICK   DYE,  Fairbanks  Gold   Mining,  gave   a  PowerPoint                                                               
presentation to  committee members  [a copy is  on file  with the                                                               
Senate Resources  Committee]. He described the  ownership pattern                                                               
of Fort  Knox, which is  currently operated by Kinross  Gold. Its                                                               
current production is  2 million ounces per  year, primarily from                                                               
locations in  North America. Most  of its exploration  is focused                                                               
around its core assets.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
The operating issues  at the Fort Knox Mine  include metal price,                                                               
grade, and reserves. Fort Knox  has a low-grade deposit, which is                                                               
one reason a  high-grade deposit like True North  is so important                                                               
to Kinross Gold's  operation. The Fort Knox  mine life projection                                                               
is to  2008. Reclamation  will begin  at True  North in  2004. In                                                               
2008,  milling will  begin  on a  stockpile,  with no  additional                                                               
expansion   of  reserves.   Kinross  Gold   plans  to   do  major                                                               
exploration  in  the  Fort  Knox area.  With  no  more  reserves,                                                               
Kinross Gold will have a window of  five years in which to add to                                                               
current reserves. The Fort Knox  payroll is about $21 million per                                                               
year, plus  35 percent  in benefits. Fort  Knox spends  about $52                                                               
million  per year  locally,  of  which about  $15  million is  on                                                               
power. Fort  Knox's power factor  translates into a  $3.7 million                                                               
savings to local Golden Valley  Electric Association members. The                                                               
Fort  Knox  mine  employs  about 1.5  percent  of  the  borough's                                                               
population and pays about 9 percent of borough taxes.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  FATE   acknowledged  the  presence   of  Representative                                                               
Kerttula.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. DYE said Alaska hire is  about 90 percent but that percentage                                                               
has diminished a  little over the past few years  while Fort Knox                                                               
went  through a  major  expansion. The  mine  has had  difficulty                                                               
finding enough skilled diesel  mechanics and electrical mechanics                                                               
in Alaska. It  is working closely with the  vocational schools in                                                               
Fairbanks and  Seward to  recruit. He  noted the  mine encourages                                                               
out-of-state employees to become Alaska residents.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 03-5, SIDE B                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. KEITH WALTER,  general manager of Usibelli Coal  Mine, gave a                                                               
PowerPoint  presentation  [a  copy  is in  the  Senate  Resources                                                               
Committee  file]. Mr.  Walter reviewed  the history  of the  mine                                                               
since 1917,  and told members Usibelli  started doing reclamation                                                               
work in  1971, about 7  years before reclamation was  required by                                                               
law. After producing  1.5 million tons for 17  years, Usibelli is                                                               
now  producing 900,000  tons  due to  a loss  of  sales to  South                                                               
Korea.  Usibelli  has  five  permitted  mines;  two  are  on  the                                                               
decline.  The  three  active permitted  areas  contain  about  60                                                               
million tons  of coal.   It has  four different customers  in six                                                               
different sites:  Fort Wainwright, Eielsen Air  Force Base, Clear                                                               
Air  Force Base,  Aurora Energy,  the University  of Alaska,  and                                                               
Golden Valley  at Healy. Usibelli  is now  moving into a  new 25-                                                               
acre  site  that  contains  40   million  tons  of  reserves.  He                                                               
discussed  the  Suntrana formation  and  the  Jumbo Dome  leases.                                                               
Usibelli wants  to educate  the public on  the benefits  of using                                                               
coal to  generate electricity. Coal  generates 56 percent  of all                                                               
electricity in the United States.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR LINCOLN asked what the state can do to help Usibelli.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. WALTER  said an  expedited permitting  process for  the Jumbo                                                               
Dome and Emmett  Creek areas would help. If  the permitting takes                                                               
10 or 15 years, many families will leave the Healy area.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR FATE asked about the future of the clean coal project.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. WALTER said at this  time the Alaska Industrial Development &                                                               
Export  Authority   (AIDEA)  and   the  Golden   Valley  Electric                                                               
Association are trying to figure  out how to finance the project.                                                               
He explained  the coal  is sub-bituminous,  very low  sulfur, and                                                               
produces about 7800 BTU per pound.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR LINCOLN asked if Usibelli  has explored how coal might be                                                               
used at the missile defense site.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. WALTER  said that Usibelli can  sell more coal to  the Golden                                                               
Valley Electric Association.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  FATE  then announced  the  next  presentation would  be                                                               
about the Pogo project.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
KARL HANNEMAN, Teck-Pogo, Inc., told  members he has the exciting                                                               
project  of  developing what  will  be  the  next major  mine  in                                                               
Alaska, the  Pogo Project. He  gave a PowerPoint  presentation [a                                                               
copy is  located in  the Senate  Resources Committee  file]. Pogo                                                               
has a  5 million ounce  resource located  on state land.  Its key                                                               
issues  for  development  are  to ensure  the  integrity  of  the                                                               
Goodpaster River and management  and mitigation of the all-season                                                               
access road. He reviewed the  history of the mine's ownership and                                                               
development. The underground mine will  require a capital cost of                                                               
$250 million; Teck-Cominco  has invested $78 million  so far. The                                                               
project  will  require 500  employees  to  construct and  300  to                                                               
operate.  Teck-Cominco is  engaged  in  the Environmental  Impact                                                               
Study and permit  process now. Teck-Cominco has  begun a regional                                                               
workforce  development and  training program  in Delta  Junction.                                                               
Access  is   a  challenge;  Teck-Cominco  proposes   to  use  the                                                               
Goodpaster winter  trail to bring  supplies and equipment  to the                                                               
site.  To  make  the  project a  reality,  the  road,  wastewater                                                               
discharge,  and power  line need  to be  permitted. It  will also                                                               
need a stable  tax policy and a schedule to  make this happen and                                                               
a  positive  final feasibility  study  to  confirm the  economics                                                               
based on the permit conditions imposed.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR.  HANNEMAN  pointed  out  that  Teck-Cominco  appreciates  the                                                               
support it has heard for construction  of new roads in Alaska. It                                                               
is  proposing  a  private-industrial right-of-way  in  which  the                                                               
company will  pay for all  construction, maintenance  and closure                                                               
of the road but the road will not  be open to the public in order                                                               
to  reduce  safety,   liability,  environmental  and  subsistence                                                               
issues. Teck-Cominco would propose  limited commercial use of the                                                               
road. It has proposed posting a  bond for the road and power line                                                               
reclamation  at the  end of  the  project. Teck-Cominco  believes                                                               
this road management solution will  provide major benefits to the                                                               
state.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 03-6, SIDE A                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  LINCOLN  said no  one  is  opposed to  streamlining  the                                                               
permitting process, especially if  it benefits Alaska businesses.                                                               
She asked  Mr. Hanneman if  Alaska made every change  possible to                                                               
streamline the  process, how much  of the problem would  lie with                                                               
the  federal permitting  process, using  the Pogo  project as  an                                                               
example.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR.  HANNEMAN  said   the  EIS  process  is   proceeding  with  a                                                               
cooperative agreement  between the EPA, Corps  of Engineers, DNR,                                                               
and  the  Coast  Guard  (because   of  the  bridge).  Under  that                                                               
agreement, it  is the  federal NEPA process  that is  driving the                                                               
timeline. The  state has been  quite professional  and supportive                                                               
in working with  the federal agencies to try to  move things in a                                                               
timely  manner.  However,  the   scientific  standard  of  review                                                               
required under NEPA is substantial.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KERTTULA  asked  Mr. Hanneman  to  suggest  three                                                               
changes to the process that would be helpful.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. HANNEMAN  said clear coordination  of state review is  a very                                                               
"doable" task. A  procedure for issue resolution  within the NEPA                                                               
review  itself, where  various agencies  comment  on the  drafts,                                                               
would be  helpful. He suggested the  state might be able  to work                                                               
with the  federal agencies to  set up  a schedule of  review. The                                                               
bottom line  is that the  courts require the federal  agencies to                                                               
take  a hard  look  at issues  no matter  when  those issues  are                                                               
raised during the process.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:30 p.m.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR.  RICK   RICHENS  gave  a   PowerPoint  presentation   on  the                                                               
Kensington  mine north  of  Juneau. Coeur  D'Alene  Mines is  the                                                               
world's largest silver producer; the  Kensington mine is its only                                                               
major gold asset.  He reviewed  the history of mining in the area                                                               
of the  Kensington mine. The mine  is located in an  area typical                                                               
of  Southeast with  steep topography  and high  precipitation. He                                                               
has found  that many  of the federal  permitting programs  do not                                                               
take  into   account  the  unique  environmental   conditions  of                                                               
Southeast Alaska, such  as an annual rainfall of  100 inches. The                                                               
Kensington  mine  is  located  adjacent  to  Jualin  land,  which                                                               
consists  of  5,000  acres  of  patented  and  unpatented  mining                                                               
claims. It is also adjacent to  land owned by Goldbelt, which has                                                               
started to figure  into the Kensington project  plan. The project                                                               
was permitted in 1998, but  was determined to be uneconomical. It                                                               
entered into an  optimization program with the goal  of trying to                                                               
significantly reduce  capital and operating costs.  Coeur D'Alene                                                               
decided to  go with  a proposal  that would  link the  Jualin and                                                               
Kensington  properties via  a 6500-foot  tunnel. The  project was                                                               
downsized  and  made more  efficient.  The  Kensington mine  will                                                               
employ 350 people during construction  and 225 during operations.                                                               
The  size  of the  overall  footprint  of  the project  has  been                                                               
reduced   to  150   acres  and   wetlands   impact  was   reduced                                                               
significantly. Coeur  D'Alene Mines entered into  agreements with                                                               
Goldbelt,  Klukwan,  and  Kake  Tribal  to  provide  Native  hire                                                               
preference and  training. It has  filed a new plan  of operations                                                               
with  the U.S.  Forest Service,  which triggered  an EIS.  It has                                                               
filed all  major federal  permit applications  and is  working on                                                               
state permits.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   KERTTULA  asked   the  status   of  the   issues                                                               
surrounding the lake.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR.  RICHENS said  that Coeur  D'Alene  Mines has  filed a  water                                                               
discharge permit application with the  EPA and is in an iterative                                                               
process  whereby it  provides its  scientific findings  through a                                                               
series  of  workshops  and  EPA comes  back  with  questions.  He                                                               
understands  that if  Coeur D'Alene  Mines  can demonstrate  that                                                               
this project  is better environmentally than  permitted projects,                                                               
the EPA  will issue a  water discharge permit. Regarding  a prior                                                               
question about  three wishes, he said  he would like to  see more                                                               
predictability in  the permitting  process. Coeur D'Alene  is now                                                               
trying to  get a  memorandum of agreement  between the  state and                                                               
federal agencies  that would definitively  spell out  review time                                                               
frames.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KERTTULA asked  if the  issue is  not necessarily                                                               
the outcome as much as predictability regarding the timeframe.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. RICHENS  said that is  correct. He  said they are  not asking                                                               
that the  outcome be  pre-judged, but that  the process  has some                                                               
sideboards built around it. He  noted that regarding the issue of                                                               
state primacy of NPDES, he has  seen that work very well in other                                                               
states.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR.  RICK  VAN  NIEUWENHUYSE,  President   of  NovaGold,  gave  a                                                               
PowerPoint  presentation  [a  copy   is  located  in  the  Senate                                                               
Resources Committee file].  Its main activities in  Alaska are in                                                               
Donlin  Creek,  around Nome  at  Rock  Creek  and the  Nome  Gold                                                               
project.  The  Donlin  Creek project  is  a  partnership  between                                                               
NovaGold Placer Dome and Chulista  and the TKC. Chulista owns the                                                               
subsurface  rights, TKC  owns  the surface  rights.  So far,  $48                                                               
million has been spent on  the project, primarily on exploration.                                                               
It has  switched tracks and  is now focusing on  development. Two                                                               
issues need  to be  resolved. The  first is  access. The  mine is                                                               
located  about 18  miles from  the Kuskokwim  River so  an access                                                               
road  will need  to be  built. Second,  two barge  trips per  day                                                               
would  be  required to  deliver  the  amount  of fuel  needed  to                                                               
operate  the  mine.  That  plan  is feasible  but  has  risks.  A                                                               
temporary lay  down area at  the barge site could  be constructed                                                               
and an  access road could run  from Crooked Creek to  the site of                                                               
Donlin  Creek. A  pre-feasibility  study should  be completed  by                                                               
August of  this year followed  by: feasibility  and environmental                                                               
studies for  the next  two years;  financing and  arranging final                                                               
permits for  one year;  and a construction  period of  two years.                                                               
The Donlin Creek sulfide ores  will require an autoclave unit for                                                               
extraction.  Power consumption  will be  high, which  is the  big                                                               
issue  for  the  project.  The  mine  will  provide  500  to  600                                                               
construction  jobs  and  450  to   550  jobs  during  operations.                                                               
NovaGold  has  placed a  lot  of  emphasis on  shareholder  hire,                                                               
primarily from the upper villages on the Kuskokwim River.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. ROB PEASE, General Manager  of Placer Dome, told members that                                                               
Placer Dome has  been involved in the Donlin  Creek project since                                                               
1995.  Donlin Creek  is a  very, very  large project.  It is  the                                                               
single  largest  capital  project   that  Placer  Dome  has  ever                                                               
endeavored.  This  project is in a remote location  and cannot be                                                               
developed as a stand alone mine;  it will require a joint venture                                                               
of companies  and all of  the stakeholders  in Alaska to  make it                                                               
work.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. CURT  FREEMAN, President  of Avalon  Development Corporation,                                                               
gave a  PowerPoint presentation entitled "Perception  is Reality,                                                               
A View  from Outside Alaska."  [A copy  is located in  the Senate                                                               
Resources  Committee   file.]  He  explained   Alaska's  positive                                                               
aspects:  its  experienced  labor force,  abundant  stable  land,                                                               
acceptable tax  regime, pro-development  government, and  that it                                                               
is highly under prospected. He noted  that in many other parts of                                                               
the  world, the  mining  industry is  encountering problems  with                                                               
aboriginal rights, an issue that  was resolved in Alaska with the                                                               
Alaska  Native Claims  Settlement Act.  He showed  graphs of  the                                                               
discovery  rate of  Alaska's gold  resources, the  drill footage,                                                               
the cumulative gold resources, cost,  and gold deposits ranked by                                                               
size. He pointed  out the downside of Alaska is  that it does not                                                               
have a mid-tier  mining company in the state, it  is highly under                                                               
prospected due  to a lack  of infrastructure, the labor  force is                                                               
more  expensive,   the  perception  that  Alaska   is  one  giant                                                               
wilderness   area,  and   the  fact   that  the   pro-development                                                               
government could change quickly.  He expressed concern that there                                                               
is no  recourse to frivolous lawsuits  that are filed to  slow an                                                               
operation down.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 03-6, SIDE B                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. FREEMAN  cited the Fraser survey  [www.fraserinstitute.ca], a                                                               
survey  by  a Canadian  think  tank  of  companies to  gauge  the                                                               
perceived  investment   attractiveness  of   given  jurisdictions                                                               
around the world. Alaska's rank  dropped from seventh to twelfth,                                                               
however it  scored behind Russia,  China, South  Africa, Bolivia,                                                               
Brazil and Peru.  It has scored better in the  past: last year it                                                               
ranked seventh.  He discussed the  survey's conclusions  and said                                                               
that the perception is that:  environmental and land use policies                                                               
are major deterrents to mineral  investment in Alaska; Alaska has                                                               
built  virtually no  new roads  or power  facilities; and  Alaska                                                               
needs a rural  hub for development that can grow.  Others are not                                                               
convinced of  the stable  nature of  Alaska's land.  In addition,                                                               
the  state  and federal  mine  permitting  processes need  to  be                                                               
coordinated to a greater extent.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. FREEMAN said Alaska's biggest  mistake is its underestimation                                                               
of the  competitions' ability to  draw capital. When  people feel                                                               
it is  safer to invest money  in Russia, China or  Indonesia than                                                               
it is in Alaska, a lot of work needs to be done.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
He  suggested streamlining  the permit  process, eliminating  the                                                               
zero liability  legal challenge, designing and  building road and                                                               
power   facilities  in   centralized  hubs,   expanding  airborne                                                               
geophysical   surveys,  and   regaining  regulatory   control  of                                                               
Alaska's waters and coastlines.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
ANNOUNCEMENTS                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                              
There were no announcements.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                              
The committees took no action.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR FATE adjourned the meeting at 3:20 p.m.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
NOTE:   The meeting was  recorded and handwritten log  notes were                                                               
taken.  A  copy of the tape(s)  and log notes may  be obtained by                                                               
contacting the  Senate Records Office  at State Capitol,  Room 3,                                                               
Juneau,  Alaska  99801  (mailing address),  (907)  465-2870,  and                                                               
after adjournment of the second session of the 23rd Alaska State                                                                
Legislature this information may be obtained by contacting the                                                                  
Legislative Reference Library at (907) 465-3808.                                                                                

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